Topics

More bad press

Jeffrey Angus
 

Despite the fact this was written by a prepper/milita nut job.
<https://offgridsurvival.com/california-officials-declare-ham-radio-no-longer-a-benefit>

This what happens when Hams act like fools during an emergency.
And I've seen my share of them back when I lived in Los Angeles.
From attitudes like, "I'm NOT doing that, I'm here to communicate,
not act like your gofer."
To stealing anything that isn't nailed down in the repeater sites.

That being said, not all Hams are like that.

The above article was based on the actions of Cal Fire in the
Shingletown area. For a more accurate report of what happened
and the response to it see:
<http://www.shastadefense.com/FAX-CalFireHamRadio20190923.pdf>



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

Ken Hansen
 

My takeaway, based on the attached/linked-to letters you also linked to, is that California - at least this section, if not all - is going to charge monthly rent for repeater sites on public lands AND charge big fees for site reviews and applications for EXISTING repeater sites on public land, fees into the several thousands of dollars.

The official letter also takes the position that Amateur Radio Groups provide no service any more because of 'changes' in technology.

The letter (appendix A) is from a state agency, not local, and it cites none of the issues you indicate likely led to this decision.

This is not, as far as the state letter (appendix a) is concerned, due to bad attitudes, petty theft, or anything other than a sense that the State was supporting these organizations and that these organizations no longer provide benefits to justify that support.

I ignore the prep'er screed in the first link, skimmed the counter arguments from the organizations in the second link, and focused on the original letter from the state (appendix A).

I think this is a big issue - not stage a protest big - but a call to wake up and make sure the communities and public services we try to help share our belief that we provide a public service.

Ken Hansen, N2VIP


On Oct 11, 2019, at 18:10, Jeffrey Angus <jdangus@...> wrote:

Despite the fact this was written by a prepper/milita nut job.
<https://offgridsurvival.com/california-officials-declare-ham-radio-no-longer-a-benefit>

This what happens when Hams act like fools during an emergency.
And I've seen my share of them back when I lived in Los Angeles.
From attitudes like, "I'm NOT doing that, I'm here to communicate,
not act like your gofer."
To stealing anything that isn't nailed down in the repeater sites.

That being said, not all Hams are like that.

The above article was based on the actions of Cal Fire in the
Shingletown area. For a more accurate report of what happened
and the response to it see:
<http://www.shastadefense.com/FAX-CalFireHamRadio20190923.pdf>



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

Jeffrey Angus
 

On 10/11/19 6:28 PM, Ken Hansen wrote:
I think this is a big issue - not stage a protest big - but a call to
wake up and make sure the communities and public services we try to
help share our belief that we provide a public service.

Ken Hansen, N2VIP
A response from a friend of mine, fairly high up the food chain.

I obfuscated a bit to avoid possible political reverberations, and obviously don???t want named, but here ya go:

There was a Simulated emergency test a while back. The idea was to use our contest station as the net control station for the state. It???s in a good position and altitude.

As the president of the club that owns the station, I asked the guy in charge what I might provide in the way of help. I asked if he wanted a 2 meter antenna put up for anything. I did manage to get a ???no" out of him, although everything else was like closely held information.

Then the day before, he sent me an email asking if I was going to be there. Unfortunately, I had to work that day.

So the day arrived, and they had three people come up that had never operated any of that equipment before, and were unfamiliar with the software. They ended up putting one of our digital stations out of commission because they did need that 2 meter antenna.

I went up earlier this week and confirmed that all of the equipment they said didn???t work, did indeed work.

The state of Ham radio emergency comms is pretty sad. Different people have different ???only one way to do this??? ideas. Locally we have people that insist we have to use mesh networks, some D-Star, some DMR, some Yaesu fusion, some FM. Even some that insist that the only way to ever do this is Packet Radio. One look at the top maps will tell you that you will need a LOT of repeaters in Central PA.

And almost none of them want to take the time to learn fldigi, which are the official programs for emergency communications here.

All of which mysteriously looks like people that don???t want to upgrade beyond Technician.

The other part of the state was apparently pissed off and didn???t participate as far as I know.

A while back one of the D-Star guys went on a rampage, telling me I was clueless and needed to pay attention about the local D-Star system and network. Oddly enough, it doesn???t exist. I kept reminding him of that until he started avoiding me.

I can only guess this is happening among other Ham emcomm groups, as this stubborness and education avoidance is a personality issue. But it???s an issue that makes it difficult to find worth.

If emergency communications are going to work, decisions have to be made regarding what equipment is to be used, what software will be used, and people have to not just use it, they have to become proficient.

The present approach is something like if NASA called Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins up a week before the moon launch and told them ???Hey we saw your names in the phone book, How would you like to go to the moon???? Then the completely inexperienced astronauts spent the entire mission arguing about how to do things

So I have a pretty good idea just why Cali is giving hams the boot. More Hams with technical smarts are needed, not just people with their own axe to grind and that only want to be Techs.

Rather than take this as a learning moment, it is much more likely emcomm people will wish to kill the messenger, or at best brand him a Cassandra.




--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

Ken Hansen
 

Jeff,

I agree. The issue can be boiled down to a very simple statement I think:

Too many hams want to be considered professional emcomm personnel, until their skills come up short - then they hide behind the excuse of "this is a hobby".

My local ARES/RACES group requires that volunteers endure hours of mindless training about arcane government operating procedures, yet has no real radio-specific skills requirements, because (I suspect) it would make impossible to recruit a sufficient number of bodies to participate.

As I said, take this opportunity to discuss how your groups help local gov't agencies and make sure their needs are being met. The take away from the article isn't really rental fees for repeater sites, it's that the agency saw no value in what the clubs offered.

Ken, N2VIP


On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:31 PM, Jeffrey Angus <jdangus@...> wrote:

On 10/11/19 6:28 PM, Ken Hansen wrote:
I think this is a big issue - not stage a protest big - but a call to
wake up and make sure the communities and public services we try to
help share our belief that we provide a public service.

Ken Hansen, N2VIP
A response from a friend of mine, fairly high up the food chain.

I obfuscated a bit to avoid possible political reverberations, and obviously don???t want named, but here ya go:

There was a Simulated emergency test a while back. The idea was to use our contest station as the net control station for the state. It???s in a good position and altitude.

As the president of the club that owns the station, I asked the guy in charge what I might provide in the way of help. I asked if he wanted a 2 meter antenna put up for anything. I did manage to get a ???no" out of him, although everything else was like closely held information.

Then the day before, he sent me an email asking if I was going to be there. Unfortunately, I had to work that day.

So the day arrived, and they had three people come up that had never operated any of that equipment before, and were unfamiliar with the software. They ended up putting one of our digital stations out of commission because they did need that 2 meter antenna.

I went up earlier this week and confirmed that all of the equipment they said didn???t work, did indeed work.

The state of Ham radio emergency comms is pretty sad. Different people have different ???only one way to do this??? ideas. Locally we have people that insist we have to use mesh networks, some D-Star, some DMR, some Yaesu fusion, some FM. Even some that insist that the only way to ever do this is Packet Radio. One look at the top maps will tell you that you will need a LOT of repeaters in Central PA.

And almost none of them want to take the time to learn fldigi, which are the official programs for emergency communications here.

All of which mysteriously looks like people that don???t want to upgrade beyond Technician.

The other part of the state was apparently pissed off and didn???t participate as far as I know.

A while back one of the D-Star guys went on a rampage, telling me I was clueless and needed to pay attention about the local D-Star system and network. Oddly enough, it doesn???t exist. I kept reminding him of that until he started avoiding me.

I can only guess this is happening among other Ham emcomm groups, as this stubborness and education avoidance is a personality issue. But it???s an issue that makes it difficult to find worth.

If emergency communications are going to work, decisions have to be made regarding what equipment is to be used, what software will be used, and people have to not just use it, they have to become proficient.

The present approach is something like if NASA called Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins up a week before the moon launch and told them ???Hey we saw your names in the phone book, How would you like to go to the moon???? Then the completely inexperienced astronauts spent the entire mission arguing about how to do things

So I have a pretty good idea just why Cali is giving hams the boot. More Hams with technical smarts are needed, not just people with their own axe to grind and that only want to be Techs.

Rather than take this as a learning moment, it is much more likely emcomm people will wish to kill the messenger, or at best brand him a Cassandra.




--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

Owen Anderson
 

I have one comment - this TEXAS not California - the program 
Is being set up to find our weak points here by us not an agency.

So let’s wait and see what comes out of the program here
in TEXAS and corrections needed before tearing it down.

Owen 
KE5HRI

On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:31 PM, Jeffrey Angus <jdangus@...> wrote:

On 10/11/19 6:28 PM, Ken Hansen wrote:
I think this is a big issue - not stage a protest big - but a call to
wake up and make sure the communities and public services we try to
help share our belief that we provide a public service.

Ken Hansen, N2VIP
A response from a friend of mine, fairly high up the food chain.

I obfuscated a bit to avoid possible political reverberations, and obviously don???t want named, but here ya go:

There was a Simulated emergency test a while back. The idea was to use our contest station as the net control station for the state. It???s in a good position and altitude.

As the president of the club that owns the station, I asked the guy in charge what I might provide in the way of help. I asked if he wanted a 2 meter antenna put up for anything. I did manage to get a ???no" out of him, although everything else was like closely held information.

Then the day before, he sent me an email asking if I was going to be there. Unfortunately, I had to work that day.

So the day arrived, and they had three people come up that had never operated any of that equipment before, and were unfamiliar with the software. They ended up putting one of our digital stations out of commission because they did need that 2 meter antenna.

I went up earlier this week and confirmed that all of the equipment they said didn???t work, did indeed work.

The state of Ham radio emergency comms is pretty sad. Different people have different ???only one way to do this??? ideas. Locally we have people that insist we have to use mesh networks, some D-Star, some DMR, some Yaesu fusion, some FM. Even some that insist that the only way to ever do this is Packet Radio. One look at the top maps will tell you that you will need a LOT of repeaters in Central PA.

And almost none of them want to take the time to learn fldigi, which are the official programs for emergency communications here.

All of which mysteriously looks like people that don???t want to upgrade beyond Technician.

The other part of the state was apparently pissed off and didn???t participate as far as I know.

A while back one of the D-Star guys went on a rampage, telling me I was clueless and needed to pay attention about the local D-Star system and network. Oddly enough, it doesn???t exist. I kept reminding him of that until he started avoiding me.

I can only guess this is happening among other Ham emcomm groups, as this stubborness and education avoidance is a personality issue. But it???s an issue that makes it difficult to find worth.

If emergency communications are going to work, decisions have to be made regarding what equipment is to be used, what software will be used, and people have to not just use it, they have to become proficient.

The present approach is something like if NASA called Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins up a week before the moon launch and told them ???Hey we saw your names in the phone book, How would you like to go to the moon???? Then the completely inexperienced astronauts spent the entire mission arguing about how to do things

So I have a pretty good idea just why Cali is giving hams the boot. More Hams with technical smarts are needed, not just people with their own axe to grind and that only want to be Techs.

Rather than take this as a learning moment, it is much more likely emcomm people will wish to kill the messenger, or at best brand him a Cassandra.




--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

Charles Penry
 

I had this type of thing happen from a certain large company in Greenville. They got a new director in charge of the department that was the owner/controller of a certain tower I have Amateur Radio equipment at. The director didn't know what our equipment was nor what it did, all the director knew is that it was quickly decided that it had to go. We Amateurs and other management folks at the company tried to talk to the director but nothing would change the director's mind.

After a few weeks she lost her job over it. Our equipment is still at the tower.

It will be interesting what comes of this...

Charles
WA5VHU