Topics

Bowing Out

Jerry A. Goodson W5BFF <hydrashok407@...>
 

It's time for me to bow out. I mean the ARRL. When Steve took the helm as SM, there were over 485 members of this group. Now, there's less than 200. Over the past couple of weeks, about 30 or so joined the group just to see the drama of our failed section leadership.... particularly, our section manager. This isn't what I signed up for, or even close to what I've seen the section become. I thought I could stick it out until we got a new section manager in a year and a half, but it has just become "not fun" anymore. In addition to NTX section drama, there's too much happening with the League, as a whole, to stomach any longer. So, I'm going to get back to enjoying amateur radio with my family.... and without the headache of dealing with the league or the section. To all of those section officials and appointees who have called me for help and support, please feel free to continue to do so. Like I told all of you, I don't need a position or title to help out my fellow hams. My actual email address is hydrashok407@..., and my phone number is 430-342-3376.  

Jeffrey Angus, WA6FWI
 

On 8/21/19 11:27 AM, Jerry A. Goodson W5BFF wrote:
It's time for me to bow out. I mean the ARRL. When Steve took the helm as SM, there were over 485 members of this group. Now, there's less than 200. Over the past couple of weeks, about 30 or so joined the group just to see the drama of our failed section leadership.... particularly, our section manager.
Owen, the numbers you're quoting are from a guy that used them
to justify not only quitting ARES but the ARRL as well. Nor does he
say where he got the numbers.

But, keep stirring the pot, because I know you're just not going to
be happy until Steve has been arrested and NTX ARES is nothing
more than a smoking crater in the ground.

-- 
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

Owen Anderson
 

NO - your are wrong where there is smoke it seems there is a 
Fire and you investigate not stand there scratching your head.

The question needed to be asked - now we have 3 answers for
the membership to make an independent decision.

Jeff, if you were a good minded person instead of one seeking
to have every one keep your eyes covered, ears covered, 
mouth covered, for individuals that do not adhere to your
mind set then we could have a free and open discussion.
 
In a wide open society like ours.  REMEMBER THERE ARE TWO SIDES
TO AN ISSUE AND PUBLIC DEBATE BRINGS FORTH THE ITEMS
THAT YOU MAY MAKE A DECISION ON.

Since we have never met it is amazing to me that the words you
put in my mouth seem to be YOURS NOT MINE and you thought
those up not me!

Steve made his comment known from knowledgeable base -
Jeff, what is your knowledgeable base for comments?

Owen
KE5HRI


On Aug 22, 2019, at 11:41 AM, Jeffrey Angus <jdangus@...> wrote:

On 8/21/19 11:27 AM, Jerry A. Goodson W5BFF wrote:
It's time for me to bow out. I mean the ARRL. When Steve took the helm as SM, there were over 485 members of this group. Now, there's less than 200. Over the past couple of weeks, about 30 or so joined the group just to see the drama of our failed section leadership.... particularly, our section manager.
Owen, the numbers you're quoting are from a guy that used them
to justify not only quitting ARES but the ARRL as well. Nor does he
say where he got the numbers.

But, keep stirring the pot, because I know you're just not going to
be happy until Steve has been arrested and NTX ARES is nothing
more than a smoking crater in the ground.

-- 
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

Jeffrey Angus, WA6FWI
 

On 8/22/19 1:43 PM, Owen Anderson via Groups.Io wrote:
Jeff, if you were a good minded person instead of one seeking
to have every one keep your eyes covered, ears covered,
mouth covered, for individuals that do not adhere to your
mind set then we could have a free and open discussion.
Speaking of putting words in other people's mouths.

No Owen, you're the cancer that slowly kills every group or
organization. You don't want a free and open discussion, you
want every one else to agree with you. Because you won't take
anyone's opinion other than your own, and will not stop until
you've driven everyone else off.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

Ken Hansen, N2VIP
 

Owen,

I ask these questions with all sincerity, and I'd appreciate answers to them:

#1 What is THE issue, what is the ONE issue that has you most upset, concerned, what have you?

(As best as I understand the main issue we have been discussing was the status of a single posting in social media, that certainly can't be THE issue that has stirred such passionate responses from you thus far - I fear I'm missing something, and I ask you to inform me on the matter.)

#2 What would it take to satisfy YOU, not anyone else, not the other ARRL members, not the general ham population, not the IS taxpayers, but YOU PERSONALLY?

(The two principals involved in this issue have, as best I can tell, buried their hatchets and moved on - why do you persist? What different outcome do YOU expect/demand?)

#3 And finally, if, at some point, it becomes obvious to all involved that whatever it is that YOU expect to happen will not happen, what will be your response?

I ask these questions sincerely, because from where I'm sitting you seem inexplicably upset over something that, again, from where I sit , doesn't appear to be that significant to most NTX Section members that are aware of the 'situation'.

As I understand it, and I'll confess to giving this matter less than my full attention these past few weeks, the 'facts' are approximately as follows:

A person submitted paperwork to run for elected office within the organization, then

A member of the NTX Section leadership of that organization announced that person's candidacy on an NTX-sponsored social media outlet, then

The Section manager of the club took down the announcement as inappropriate, then

There was great gnashing of teeth, along with claims of 'censorship' and accusations of acting like a 'dictator' as well as calling for official's (figurative) heads amongst several members of the NTX Section, then,

The Section Manager explained that because the candidate in the announcement had not yet been approved by the organization - he'd only submitted his paperwork and acceptance far from automatic - he was not actually yet a candidate when the aforementioned 'announcement' was posted on social media by an official of the Section on a Section-sponsored social media outlet, so it was deemed inappropriate and removed, then

Upon learning the 'why' behind the section managers actions and personal reflection, the member that posted the original candidacy announcement admitted errors were made, and withdrew from the organization and in a way seemed to sort of forgive the Section manager for the misunderstandings that had transpired, then

The Section manager laid out the basic timeline of the events in an email to the email reflector, and an effort was organized (and is currently on-going) at the Section official level to determine how to better handle these types of social media/official announcement issues going forward, then

A few members of the Section, unsatisfied at the outcome continue to hint at 'fires burning' below the surface that must be investigated, that are deeply insulted/upset about the seeming conclusion to a matter they still regard as worth of discussion and in need of serious remedy beyond anything put forward thus far.

THAT is where we are today, and it is my hope Owen that you will take some time and respond to my three specific, enumerated questions above - it is apparently true that the membership of this EMAIL REFLECTOR has dropped significantly since this issue first occurred, but without conducting exit interviews of those dropping their membership in the groups.io group, we can't honestly say with any certainty if they left because of the actions of the Section Manager or at the outlandish response from a handful of members (section officials and general members) demanding drastic actions in response to the Section Manager's actions.

NOTE: There are details left out of the above re-cap, but in my opinion they aren't very significant - that's a determination I made.

Please, Owen, respond to the above specific questions - I, and I think more than a few group members, would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Ken Hansen, N2VIP

On Aug 22, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Owen Anderson via Groups.Io <oaand@...> wrote:

NO - your are wrong where there is smoke it seems there is a
Fire and you investigate not stand there scratching your head.

Bert Sharp
 

you guys shouldn't wonder why the rest of us don't become active in the org.   stop the belittling comments .....I don't care if they are true are not....guys...GROW UP......this is not grade school...... enough said.....should be ashamed...

Owen Anderson
 

Jeff, I’m through trying to be pleasant when as an individual I
ask questions and have you twist them for evil purposes.

Your saying above your signature, I seriously question??

Have fun running off ARRL members from participating in
these discussions with your short sighted language.

Owen
KE5HRI 


On Aug 22, 2019, at 2:56 PM, Jeffrey Angus <jdangus@...> wrote:

On 8/22/19 1:43 PM, Owen Anderson via Groups.Io wrote:
Jeff, if you were a good minded person instead of one seeking
to have every one keep your eyes covered, ears covered,
mouth covered, for individuals that do not adhere to your
mind set then we could have a free and open discussion.
Speaking of putting words in other people's mouths.

No Owen, you're the cancer that slowly kills every group or
organization. You don't want a free and open discussion, you
want every one else to agree with you. Because you won't take
anyone's opinion other than your own, and will not stop until
you've driven everyone else off.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

Owen Anderson
 

The questions have been answered
BUT I asked about the number
of members since it came up
(Is that wrong?) and all hell broke
loose - why?

Ken, please explain why we can not ask questions?

You should notice that there seems
to a limited number of participates
as no one wants to be attacked. for
raising questions to be chewed out.

Why belong to a group that does
not allow questions and comment?

Owen

KE5HRI









On Thursday, August 22, 2019 Ken Hansen <section@arrlntx.groups.io> wrote:

Owen,

I ask these questions with all sincerity, and I'd appreciate answers to them:

#1 What is THE issue, what is the ONE issue that has you most upset, concerned, what have you?

(As best as I understand the main issue we have been discussing was the status of a single posting in social media, that certainly can't be THE issue that has stirred such passionate responses from you thus far - I fear I'm missing something, and I ask you to inform me on the matter.)

#2 What would it take to satisfy YOU, not anyone else, not the other ARRL members, not the general ham population, not the IS taxpayers, but YOU PERSONALLY?

(The two principals involved in this issue have, as best I can tell, buried their hatchets and moved on - why do you persist? What different outcome do YOU expect/demand?)

#3 And finally, if, at some point, it becomes obvious to all involved that whatever it is that YOU expect to happen will not happen, what will be your response?

I ask these questions sincerely, because from where I'm sitting you seem inexplicably upset over something that, again, from where I sit , doesn't appear to be that significant to most NTX Section members that are aware of the 'situation'.

As I understand it, and I'll confess to giving this matter less than my full attention these past few weeks, the 'facts' are approximately as follows:

A person submitted paperwork to run for elected office within the organization, then

A member of the NTX Section leadership of that organization announced that person's candidacy on an NTX-sponsored social media outlet, then

The Section manager of the club took down the announcement as inappropriate, then

There was great gnashing of teeth, along with claims of 'censorship' and accusations of acting like a 'dictator' as well as calling for official's (figurative) heads amongst several members of the NTX Section, then,

The Section Manager explained that because the candidate in the announcement had not yet been approved by the organization - he'd only submitted his paperwork and acceptance far from automatic - he was not actually yet a candidate when the aforementioned 'announcement' was posted on social media by an official of the Section on a Section-sponsored social media outlet, so it was deemed inappropriate and removed, then

Upon learning the 'why' behind the section managers actions and personal reflection, the member that posted the original candidacy announcement admitted errors were made, and withdrew from the organization and in a way seemed to sort of forgive the Section manager for the misunderstandings that had transpired, then

The Section manager laid out the basic timeline of the events in an email to the email reflector, and an effort was organized (and is currently on-going) at the Section official level to determine how to better handle these types of social media/official announcement issues going forward, then

A few members of the Section, unsatisfied at the outcome continue to hint at 'fires burning' below the surface that must be investigated, that are deeply insulted/upset about the seeming conclusion to a matter they still regard as worth of discussion and in need of serious remedy beyond anything put forward thus far.

THAT is where we are today, and it is my hope Owen that you will take some time and respond to my three specific, enumerated questions above - it is apparently true that the membership of this EMAIL REFLECTOR has dropped significantly since this issue first occurred, but without conducting exit interviews of those dropping their membership in the groups.io group, we can't honestly say with any certainty if they left because of the actions of the Section Manager or at the outlandish response from a handful of members (section officials and general members) demanding drastic actions in response to the Section Manager's actions.

NOTE: There are details left out of the above re-cap, but in my opinion they aren't very significant - that's a determination I made.

Please, Owen, respond to the above specific questions - I, and I think more than a few group members, would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Ken Hansen, N2VIP

On Aug 22, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Owen Anderson via Groups.Io <oaand@...> wrote:

NO - your are wrong where there is smoke it seems there is a
Fire and you investigate not stand there scratching your head.

Jeffrey Angus, WA6FWI
 

On 8/22/19 7:14 PM, Owen Anderson via Groups.Io wrote:
The questions have been answered
No they have not.
What are you hiding?


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

 

Owen

What question did not get answered?

Steve

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 7:58 PM Jeffrey Angus <jdangus@...> wrote:
On 8/22/19 7:14 PM, Owen Anderson via Groups.Io wrote:
The questions have been answered
No they have not.
What are you hiding?


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

--
Steve
KG5VK
Tele 318-470-9806
ARRL NTX Section Manager 
Please note: My Out Going Email address is LottsPhoto@...
KG5VK@... is forwarded to my Gmail address

Jeffrey Angus, WA6FWI
 

Steve, these are the questions Owen couldn't be bothered to answer.


On 8/22/19 3:06 PM, Ken Hansen wrote:
Owen,

I ask these questions with all sincerity, and I'd appreciate answers
to them:

#1 What is THE issue, what is the ONE issue that has you most upset,
concerned, what have you?

(As best as I understand the main issue we have been discussing was
the status of a single posting in social media, that certainly can't
be THE issue that has stirred such passionate responses from you thus
far - I fear I'm missing something, and I ask you to inform me on the
matter.)

#2 What would it take to satisfy YOU, not anyone else, not the other
ARRL members, not the general ham population, not the IS taxpayers,
but YOU PERSONALLY?

(The two principals involved in this issue have, as best I can tell,
buried their hatchets and moved on - why do you persist? What
different outcome do YOU expect/demand?)

#3 And finally, if, at some point, it becomes obvious to all involved
that whatever it is that YOU expect to happen will not happen, what
will be your response?

I ask these questions sincerely, because from where I'm sitting you
seem inexplicably upset over something that, again, from where I sit ,
doesn't appear to be that significant to most NTX Section members that
are aware of the 'situation'.

As I understand it, and I'll confess to giving this matter less than
my full attention these past few weeks, the 'facts' are approximately
as follows:

A person submitted paperwork to run for elected office within the
organization, then

A member of the NTX Section leadership of that organization announced
that person's candidacy on an NTX-sponsored social media outlet, then

The Section manager of the club took down the announcement as
inappropriate, then

There was great gnashing of teeth, along with claims of 'censorship'
and accusations of acting like a 'dictator' as well as calling for
official's (figurative) heads amongst several members of the NTX
Section, then,

The Section Manager explained that because the candidate in the
announcement had not yet been approved by the organization - he'd only
submitted his paperwork and acceptance far from automatic - he was not
actually yet a candidate when the aforementioned 'announcement' was
posted on social media by an official of the Section on a
Section-sponsored social media outlet, so it was deemed inappropriate
and removed, then

Upon learning the 'why' behind the section managers actions and
personal reflection, the member that posted the original candidacy
announcement admitted errors were made, and withdrew from the
organization and in a way seemed to sort of forgive the Section
manager for the misunderstandings that had transpired, then

The Section manager laid out the basic timeline of the events in an
email to the email reflector, and an effort was organized (and is
currently on-going) at the Section official level to determine how to
better handle these types of social media/official announcement issues
going forward, then

A few members of the Section, unsatisfied at the outcome continue to
hint at 'fires burning' below the surface that must be investigated,
that are deeply insulted/upset about the seeming conclusion to a
matter they still regard as worth of discussion and in need of serious
remedy beyond anything put forward thus far.

THAT is where we are today, and it is my hope Owen that you will take
some time and respond to my three specific, enumerated questions above
- it is apparently true that the membership of this EMAIL REFLECTOR
has dropped significantly since this issue first occurred, but without
conducting exit interviews of those dropping their membership in the
groups.io group, we can't honestly say with any certainty if they left
because of the actions of the Section Manager or at the outlandish
response from a handful of members (section officials and general
members) demanding drastic actions in response to the Section
Manager's actions.

NOTE: There are details left out of the above re-cap, but in my
opinion they aren't very significant - that's a determination I made.

Please, Owen, respond to the above specific questions - I, and I think
more than a few group members, would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Ken Hansen, N2VIP
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWI
www.foxsmercantile.com

 

Owen,

Did I answer your question about the percentage of members we have lost?

Did you have a second question regarding the number of members in our section or some other number?

I really am attempting to upright this train.
But with several of your posts being across more than one thread (Topic),
but on the same number or percentage question 
I am afraid I missed a question that you deserve an answer to.

Last post I saw from you after I gave you the point 2 percent answer said
Someone stated 50%,   fifty percent of what?     % of FB members,  % of Groups.IO   50 percent of what?

If I am given a specific question I might be able to adequately answer it

I think you also asked when did I take office as SM, that answer is easy 1 April 2019
Almost Five months ago
Since then I have attended 7 Ham Fest and 8 club meetings
Because I want to serve the members of our Section

So how can I help you?

Steve
KG5VK

KG5VK@...

Ken Hansen, N2VIP
 

Owen, no one is stopping you from asking questions, but it would be great to toss in a few ANSWERS now and then, you know, to move the CONVERSATION forward.

Right now, we seem to be spinning our wheels, not getting towards an resolution.

I do not believe there was anything in my last note that could, in any way be considered as trying to 'stifle' you, I was asking you sincere questions, and you chose not to answer any of them.

Bluntly, and succinctly - What is the problem that's got you so upset? It honestly can't be about the retraction of the pre-mature and ultimately incorrect announcement of one persons candidacy for an ARRL office - it honestly can't be. So what is it - I'm asking for an answer, I'm not trying to silence you, I'm not trying to stop you from questioning anything, I want to understand what you are upset about.

Please, a simple answer would be appreciated.

Ken Hansen, N2VIP

On Aug 22, 2019, at 7:14 PM, Owen Anderson via Groups.Io <oaand@...> wrote:

Why belong to a group that does
not allow questions and comment?

Blake hailey
 

I have been reading the post on this topic.  It appears to me that both gentlemen didn’t handle the situation as responsible adults in the beginning.  However, they did work things out later.  We all make mistakes and this is a volunteer organization.  In 18 months we can elect new officers.  So someone else can run or nominate another person to run.  So let’s give both a chance to redeem themselves or elect new people next time.  Everyone deserves a second chance.

Blake Ka5POW

 

 

From: section@arrlntx.groups.io [mailto:section@arrlntx.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Lott Smith KG5VK via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:32 PM
To: section@arrlntx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ARRLNTX] Bowing Out

 

Owen,

Did I answer your question about the percentage of members we have lost?

Did you have a second question regarding the number of members in our section or some other number?

I really am attempting to upright this train.
But with several of your posts being across more than one thread (Topic),
but on the same number or percentage question 
I am afraid I missed a question that you deserve an answer to.

Last post I saw from you after I gave you the point 2 percent answer said
Someone stated 50%,   fifty percent of what?     % of FB members,  % of Groups.IO   50 percent of what?

If I am given a specific question I might be able to adequately answer it

I think you also asked when did I take office as SM, that answer is easy 1 April 2019
Almost Five months ago
Since then I have attended 7 Ham Fest and 8 club meetings
Because I want to serve the members of our Section

So how can I help you?

Steve
KG5VK

KG5VK@...

John Smyder - W5JWS
 

You state “You should notice that there seems

to a limited number of participates as no one wants to be attacked. for raising questions to be chewed out.”

I will posit another reason for you sir: We feel the issue has been handled and explained to our satisfaction and are ready to move on. 

I believe that Steve and Ken have provided ample explanation. 

I believe your question of membership should be extended to the ARRL in general and possibly modified to something like, why are the numbers of of hams increasing however ARRL membership is not keeping pace?

Having been in one of the town halls held by the West Gulf Director and the NTX SM I believe there is a desire to listen to the membership, starting with radio club leadership, and begin changing the downward trend of ARRL membership.

I, like Ken, believe there is something bigger than this situation that is eating at you and pray you can find a way to get over it as many other of us have as I don’t believe I’m covering my eyes and ears to this situation.

73,

--
John W Smyder - W5JWS

w5etm@...
 

ENOUGH, ENOUGH ENOUGH

This is a hobby for many of us, and a useful tool in our jobs (I am in Emergency Management).  But this is getting ridiculous.  There is so much we can do to improve the image, reach and scope of amateur radio but there are several who won't let this issue end.

Owen - if you are going to "Bow out" as you say then go.  I hope you don't but this is ridiculous.  I appreciate you thought you had a valid concern to bring up, but the court of opinion has dealt with it.  I hate to say it but you .... never mind it would only start something anew.

Steve and the rest posting on this one topic - Stop answering Owen and when he doesn't get the continued attention maybe his next posting will be on something other than politics.

We have the IKE special event, SET, TX QSO party and so many other things that need to be discussed.

I am ashamed to refer the students in my licensing classes to the ARRL when they would see this crap.

Ed, W5ETM

Budd <buddwb4j@...>
 

I agree, I have muted the Bow Out topic and will unsubscribe if this continues. Lets get back to business!

Budd WB4J

Coryell EC

 

Rick Hall
 

Everybody let it go please


On Aug 23, 2019, at 10:43 AM, w5etm@... wrote:

ENOUGH, ENOUGH ENOUGH

This is a hobby for many of us, and a useful tool in our jobs (I am in Emergency Management).  But this is getting ridiculous.  There is so much we can do to improve the image, reach and scope of amateur radio but there are several who won't let this issue end.

Owen - if you are going to "Bow out" as you say then go.  I hope you don't but this is ridiculous.  I appreciate you thought you had a valid concern to bring up, but the court of opinion has dealt with it.  I hate to say it but you .... never mind it would only start something anew.

Steve and the rest posting on this one topic - Stop answering Owen and when he doesn't get the continued attention maybe his next posting will be on something other than politics.

We have the IKE special event, SET, TX QSO party and so many other things that need to be discussed.

I am ashamed to refer the students in my licensing classes to the ARRL when they would see this crap.

Ed, W5ETM

--
Rick Hall W5WVH

James Sutton
 

Agree- If it doesn’t directly involve ham radio enjoyment, or enlightenment, don’t post it here.  Communicate complaints privately among participants.  AC0LI Jim Sutton 


On Aug 23, 2019, at 10:51, Rick Hall via Groups.Io <rhall73@...> wrote:

Everybody let it go please


On Aug 23, 2019, at 10:43 AM, w5etm@... wrote:

ENOUGH, ENOUGH ENOUGH

This is a hobby for many of us, and a useful tool in our jobs (I am in Emergency Management).  But this is getting ridiculous.  There is so much we can do to improve the image, reach and scope of amateur radio but there are several who won't let this issue end.

Owen - if you are going to "Bow out" as you say then go.  I hope you don't but this is ridiculous.  I appreciate you thought you had a valid concern to bring up, but the court of opinion has dealt with it.  I hate to say it but you .... never mind it would only start something anew.

Steve and the rest posting on this one topic - Stop answering Owen and when he doesn't get the continued attention maybe his next posting will be on something other than politics.

We have the IKE special event, SET, TX QSO party and so many other things that need to be discussed.

I am ashamed to refer the students in my licensing classes to the ARRL when they would see this crap.

Ed, W5ETM

--
Rick Hall W5WVH